Did Jesus Die Spiritually
I was moved by a question asked of me regarding Jesus and His atonement for our sins. Although I had the answer, it made me wonder how many of my friends may not know or understand what happened that day. It may seem strange, but have you considered that Jesus died for your sins that day? He died both physically and spiritually so that we could be alive and have a future with God.
Give me a chance to show you where I’m getting this, okay? I wouldn’t be saying this if it weren’t true.
We both know that the grace that God has given us is because of what Jesus did for us. He is the lamb that was slain. Just as in the old times when the priest laid his hands on the lamb and placed on it the sins of the people, so the same thing happened with Jesus—the Lamb. The Lamb had to be sacrificed and His blood was poured out to cover the sins of the people. The lamb didn’t die for its sin (because the lamb was without spot or blemish) but, rather for the sin of others.
I am certain you already know this, but it lays a foundation for what I have found.
The Word says that the payment for sin is death…in other words, the consequence for sin is death. Returning to the first sin, we don’t see Adam or Eve falling over dead, but their spirit was “unplugged” from God when they sinned. They became separated from God. Isaiah 59:2 says, “… your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you,…” Not being plugged into God is death. And spiritual death will lead to physical death. We know that our enemy is unplugged from God. Satan is on his own and likewise we say he is dead.
In Colossians 1:18, Paul refers to Christ as “…the firstborn from the dead.” That obviously doesn’t refer to a body being returned from the dead, because several prophets had raised people from the dead and Jesus had done it at least twice that I know of. So what does this passage refer to, if not another death?
I realize that it seems odd and somehow “not right” to consider that Jesus was born again. But what about Romans 8:29 that says He is “…the firstborn among many brethren?” Born of what? Born how? In John 3, Jesus speaks of the new birth. He says that being born again is being born of the Spirit. Up to that point, except for Adam and Eve, there hadn’t been anyone born “alive in the Spirit.” All men had been born of water but dead in the Spirit, in other words, unplugged from God. So, Paul shows us that Jesus was truly the firstborn of those to be born again…born in the Spirit.
Now the question remains, “When did Jesus (His Spirit) die?”
Just as the sins of the people had to be placed on the lamb, so the sins of the world were placed on Jesus. Don’t misunderstand me. Jesus never sinned. But for the atonement of our sins to be complete, He had to take them on Himself and die for them in our stead. 1 John 3:8 says, “…The reason the Son of God was made manifest was to undo and destroy the works of the devil.” He had to undo the death (spiritual death) that was unleashed by Adam’s sin so that we could be in right standing again with God. II Corinthians 5:21 further explains, “He made Christ to be sin who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become the righteousness of God [approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him].”
Interestingly, when Jesus spoke to God He referred to Him always as “Father.” But in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34, Jesus speaking directly to our Heavenly Father says, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me [deserted and abandoned Me]?” This is the only time Jesus refers to His Father as “My God.” I believe that this came directly after the sins of the world were placed on him. Since God and sin can have no relationship, God had to unplug Himself from Jesus. At that time Jesus was alone. Directly after this cry Jesus’ body died. I don’t pretend to understand how Jesus can be God and also unplugged from God but I can’t deny that at that point, there was a separation. There had to be a separation or a death in order that there could be a birth. And what a glorious birth it was, for He arose the firstborn of many brothers!!
So reading and listening to the Spirit I have come to realize that yes, in fact Jesus died for our sins, completely and entirely. He took our place on the cross, carried our sin and died a physical and spiritual death. “He personally bore our sins in His own body on the tree [as on an altar and offered Himself on it], that I might die (cease to exist) to sin and live to righteousness.” 1 Peter 2:24
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Well that was quite a statement that I just read. I have been researching this Word of Faith Doctrine, which I might add has that word at the end of the statement, DOCTRINE and sometimes MOVEMENT, which implies that it has a different belief. Now I grew up in a Pentecostal home with the understanding that we were all of one mind. That has not been in effect for years. There is so much controversy in this world today on who is right and who is wrong, now in my opinion that creates confusion, now correct me if I am wrong, but God IS NOT the author of confusion. If you stop and think about what you said about God turning his back on his Son because he had taken the sin of the whole world upon himself and God cannot look on sin, Jesus was still alive. Now the last thing that Jesus said was father I commend my Spirit to you and he gave up the Ghost. Now prior to that he had told the thief on the cross, that today thou wilt be with me in Paradise, which is not the fire side of Hell, and it is called Hell. Jesus had all of our sins on him as it says that he sin upon himself and God could not look on him. But when he died and his blood was shed at that moment when the vail was rent from top to bottom our sins were covered by the blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. At that moment we were giving the right to enter into the Holy of Holies, not a waiting period, but right then. How can anyone even think that Jesus had to bow down to Satan and suffer before him. I serve a victorious savior that took sin upon him and not in him for my sake and then shed His Blood for the remission of sins. Get a grip. I have always told everyone when asked about do’s and don’ts. No one will really know until we get there and then Jesus will let us know who was right and who was wrong. I will be praying for this Word of Faith Doctrine, Movement.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the comment. And, yes, there is too much confusion running amuck, with everyone believing that they know best. (“Believing that you are right” will never change. -here’s an example- If you believe you are wrong then you are still believing that what you are believing is wrong…It’s kind of circular, right?) But what we as followers of Christ, children of God must strive for is, to Love one another unequivocally.
As Christians we should strive to learn and grow spiritually. If we come across someone or people who have not learned what we have or have learned something else; as long as we maintain true to what Jesus called us to do (Love God with all our heart and soul and mind and love our neighbor as our self…keeping His commands) we shouldn’t enter into strife and contention about it.
I pray for those seeking God. May they walk in Love and in the unity of Christ. I believe that as we walk closer to Him these things will become more clear. Errors will be corrected and we will all put off the old man and it’s fears.
Once again, thank you for your comment.
Gabriel
The issue that I have with saying that God abandoned Jesus is this: the phrase “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” comes directly from Psalm 22. In fact, it is verse 1. It has been shown conclusively by biblical scholars that whenever the first verse of a psalm or Old Testament passage is quoted in the New Testament, the entire psalm or passage is what is being referred to.
If you read Psalm 22, then you find the following phrases: “He trusts in the LORD; let him deliver him; let him rescue him, for he delights in him!” (V
“I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast; my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws; you lay me in the dust of death. For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet– I can count all my bones– they stare and gloat over me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.”
(vv 14-18)
The first phrase of course is what the Pharisees and elders are recorded as saying by Matthew. The second passage is a fairly detailed and accurate account of both crucifixion and we are told happened at Jesus’ crucifixion.
We also find the following phrases:
“For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, and he has not hidden his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him.” (v 22:24)
“Posterity shall serve him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation; they shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn, that he has done it.” (vv 30-31).
That last phrase of verse 31 can literally be translated, “it is finished”.
There are some who argue that the events leading up to the crucifixion are recounted in the first 23 verses and everything after that is after the Resurrection. However, it is quite telling that one of the first things Jesus says on the cross is Psalm 22:1. The last thing He says according to John is Psalm 22:31b.
I think Jesus in quoting Psalm 22 was expressing the physical/mental/emotional pain of the crucifixion and the weight of being a sin offering. We can never know what He felt at that point. But I also think by quoting Psalm 22:1, He was in part saying to the Pharisees, ‘you’ve quoted part of the psalm, remember the whole thing.’ Our atonement was purchased on Calvary, not in the pit of hell as taught by Word of Faith. When He said ‘it is finished’ He meant all that was required for forgiveness and redemption, not the Old Covenant.
OK, instead of that smiley face, that should be verse 8. Sorry, neglected to think of the consequences of an 8 and an ).
Thank you Ray for leaving your observations and comment, and don’t worry about the smiley face. I imagine that you were smiling anyway… How can’t we live with an eternal smiley face knowing what has been given us?
You mentioned an awesome Psalms. It’s one that I find to be an excellent tool to witness to our Jewish family members. But back to your comment, and observation.
Jesus may have actually been speaking in code to the Pharisees. It certainly comes together nicely if we are to extrapolate the two last words spoken in verse 31 of the 22nd chapter of Psalms, as “it is finished”. But I’m not convinced. There seems to be too much extrapolation and debate.
Something, was finished on the Cross but I am not clear as to what. If we are to consider that ALL was finished then why did He have to die physically? If ALL was completed why wasn’t until He released His Spirit that the veil in the temple was torn in two? (Mat 27:51) If ALL was done at that moment why did He tell Mary not to touch him in the garden, three days later? (John 20:17) Why did He tell her that He had not risen to the Father? (Why would that make a difference?) This makes it clear that when Jesus said “It is finished” there was other things to be done. Don’t get misunderstand me…Jesus was referencing something, but what that something was is yet unclear.
What is clear is that what happened on that cross cleared our sin once and for all, and made it possible for us to be grafted into His family, making us co-heirs with Jesus himself.
Now, we know that Light and darkness can not co-exist. (1 John 1:5) So there was a time when the Father had to turn from His Son. I believe it was the moment He was made sin. (2 Cor 5:21) Then if you read Hebrews 1:5 it states plainly that there was a moment of separation and then another moment of restoration.
It doesn’t require debate or argument. It is clear.
gg
“Firstborn” (the ancient Greek word prototokos) can describe either priority in time, or supremacy in rank. In this context, it is clear that it means the latter.
That’s and interesting interpretation, Earl. Although I don’t see your interpretation that clearly.
The ancient Greek word prototokos is a combination of two words protos and tikto. Granted these are transliterated words but for the average Joe I thing we can leave it at that. Don’t you agree?
Protos – means first in rank, First in Time or birth, Honor, chief
Tikto- means fruit from the seed, bring forth, Birth
In the following verses it all refers to the birth order (or order of appearance) Mat 1:25, Luke 2:7, Rom 8:29, Col 1:18, Rev 1:5. The reason I disagree with your analysis is that in Romans 8:29 it speaks about how he is the first among brethren. This relationship was not established until He was “reborn” as it is clear in the Word.
In Revelations it is even clearer. In the 5th verse of chapter one it says that He is the firstborn of the dead. If we were to take the word (Prototokos) you pointed out we can see the second word “tikto” establishing his birth out of death, and then the second word “Protos” first in time and birth, establishing his dominance as the chief over death.
Gabriel Grimes
found this site randomly.. =)
I don’t know much.. but I’d like to comment! I’m really interested and just trying to learn from this conversation. Dan had some really good points, i wished you could have responded to them, Gabriel. Also Ray said something that I’d like to respond to. When he mentioned that Jesus was expressing the physical/mental/emotional pain of the crucifixion… I just can’t accept that at that crucial moment, all Jesus was referring to was physcal/mental/emotional. Jesus always spoke of spiritual things, always had his eyes focused on spiritual things.. then why not at the cross, especially?
my brain hurts trying to understand what really happened between the physical death and (3 days later!) the resurrection.. but that’s where faith comes in. *sigh* there are just things that our small limited minds can’t know!
Hi Hannah,
All comments are welcome and encouraged. As for commenting on Dan’s comments I thought I had answered or commented on them. If I left something out please show me and I will be more than happy to address it.
Please know that I don’t desire to create controversy nor to alienate anyone. The purpose of this blog is to present a (hopefully) unbiased or at least non emotionally charged representation of the Word of Faith.
And I agree with you. Those three days are a wondrous mystery. I know He died physically and spiritually for us all so that we could be reborn physically and spiritually. He took captivity captive, He destroyed Satan in Hell, He went to Abraham’s Bosom and took all those souls out of there, and stood reborn and alive on the third day. How He did it and in what order are not written down in the Word. And as you wrote…this “is where Faith comes in.”
-Gabriel-
Well Gabe my man, you are so right.The Spirit is truly at work in you.